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 Women specific kit... is this a good thing?

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Johanna

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PostSubject: Women specific kit... is this a good thing?   Fri Jan 24, 2014 12:59 pm

It seems more and more manufacturers are now making women-specific kites and boards. I'm in two minds about it and would be interested to hear what the rest of you (male and female) think of this trend.

Maybe it's attracting more women to a fairly male-dominated sport?

There is a definite advantage in smaller footstraps for narrower feet. I've had to buy smaller footstraps for my man's board to fit my lady feet. If I had bought a womens board I would have had the small straps from the get go. But this is the ONLY advantage I can think of.

These are a couple of things that bug me:

- There tends to be only one "girls" kite or board from each manufacturer, so it tends to be the entry-level freeride variety. This means any female who feels she should use the womens kit rather than the mans equipment is restricted in choice.

- Kites are connected to us by the chicken loop and the bar. There is NO physical reason I can think of why we need a different kite (or is there?). On average our ladies limbs are as long as a man's, but we tend to have shorter torsos. We don't need the depower throw to be shorter than a short-armed man would.

- Why are we insisting on creating more and more dividers between the genders? Surely our society should be working towards equality. By all means create a kite for smaller, lighter riders (such as women, smaller men and younger people), but does it have to be pink or light blue with a gentle flowery pattern and be labelled a women's kite? Why not make one colour that will appeal to the ladies and two or three that look nice and aggressive for the boys, then let people buy whichever one they want.

- Manufacturers are constantly having to come up with gimmicks to show that they are moving with the times. (I could start another thread about split boards). Is this another gimmick? Is it something a manufacturer has to do, even if they personally feel it isn't necessary?

- Selling second hand women's kit is always more difficult than selling a generic kite or board.

Ok, I know I sound quite negative about all this. My intention was to discuss pros and cons. Can someone bring their list of pros, please?
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PostSubject: Re: Women specific kit... is this a good thing?   Fri Jan 24, 2014 2:36 pm

Timely post Johanna, not sure if you've seen the questions being asked right now by Epic?
They wish to know what the girls want in a kite?

They have a new kite coming out (probably not till later in the summer) called the Wahine in, yes you've guessed it girly colours...great till it's time to sell it secondhand and suddenly there is an even smaller market for said pastel coloured kite than even your regular do-all kite.

I've seen the initial cad designs for the kites and tbh they look pretty sweet...now they just to want to understand better what different needs you may choose...i.e. smaller reach on the depower, lighter on the bar etc etc

Epic are also bringing out 3 different size QR...it will mean those with shorter reach will be able to still get a decent amount of throw/depower from there kite (me included  Wink )


Sarah has always been happy on the Renegades, although the new 6.5m is a bit heavier on the bar (read also more direct feel) For her weight and style of riding the 6.5m and 9m is a full quiver!

Don't recall (in past 5years at least) ever seeing her use anything bigger than a 9m!?
When I'm aloud I will post up the Cad of the Epic Wahine  flower

Regards why, it is what the market is demanding which drives it this way.
If a brand keeps getting asked for girls specific kit eventually the $ will win, having said that we as a business have not really been asked that much about this, so time will tell.

The Wahine will be based on the Renegade as mentioned, it's a true all round, do all kite...i would happily use it for everything. But I also love days when it's banging on my 7m Epic Screamer....which incidentally is pinky/purple!
pinky


Last edited by blast on Fri Jan 24, 2014 3:04 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Women specific kit... is this a good thing?   Fri Jan 24, 2014 2:41 pm

ps. I notice you have a LibTech Skate Banana...awesome boards but no women specific model
I had the same, till I destroyed it and then got a TR Pro.....amazing board which you ride a size smaller so I now use a 153cm
BUT I still have my Burton (equivalent of North (or VW) Fish for the fresh stuff!

Sits back and waits for moose and vegas to step forward  Rolling Eyes
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hicks



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PostSubject: Re: Women specific kit... is this a good thing?   Fri Jan 24, 2014 2:54 pm

To be honest I can't tell the difference. People harp on about the differences with women's harnesses, and I really see what the fuss is about.

I tried Alun's harness once, and really liked it?

Not a massive fan of girly colours either.
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PostSubject: Re: Women specific kit... is this a good thing?   Fri Jan 24, 2014 4:29 pm

Ah, I didn't realise Epic are asking what women are looking for in a kite. I did see that they are going to be doing a women's kite though.
Personally what I look for in a kite is performance, safety, good looks and quality (in about equal measure). I think the existing Epic kites are some of the best looking beasts out there, even surpassing my previous favourite, the Bandit 6. If Epic can make a ladies kite that looks better than the Renegade or the Screamer then I will be truly impressed!
Performance, safety and quality wise I can only go by reviews and recommendations. Since there are so few ladies reviewing kites I would, again, go with a man's kite because I can get more opinions.

I do have a Skate Banana snowboard. I don't like its looks at all, but I bought it for performance reasons. It's lovely! Smile

edit: I use a man's harness because that's all they had in the shop when I was starting out. It rides up a bit sometimes, but not if I remember to tighten it up.


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PostSubject: Re: Women specific kit... is this a good thing?   Fri Jan 24, 2014 4:29 pm

I'd say harnesses make a massive difference, but it does depend on your shape and height! I'm short bodied so find only a female harness would work and very few of them too as so many manufacturers make them long sided. Wetsuits etc. also a good thing.

Boards-only ever ridden guys/unisex boards so really can't comment, but I know plenty of girls that have had to change footstraps to be tight enough. I seem to be ok with the Blankforce ones, only time my feet come out tends to be when by technique is bad for a trick I'm learning. Some of the girly boards out there do have some pretty graphics though.

Kites-surely the only difference is girly colours and graphics. And then a girl specific kite will only be one type e.g. like the renegade, so what if we wanted a kite in the style of a screamer? Would have to fly the guys/unisex kite. Size wise, we generally fly smaller than the guys, my 5, 7 and 10 does me generally for all conditions except the really, really light and then it's time to find something else for fun. Will girls kites just be manufactured in smaller sizes?

Bar & lines-the smaller chicken loop looks good and many brands are doing the same. It can be a challenge to reach the depower straps, so I can see this as being an advantage. I know plenty of ladies that have shortened the throw on their bars as they were unable to either reach the bar if dropped or reach the depower. I haven't currently got this problem with my kit, but have experienced bars where I've been unable to reach.
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PostSubject: Re: Women specific kit... is this a good thing?   Fri Jan 24, 2014 4:47 pm

Wetsuits, absolutely, no doubt about that one! Smile

I also totally agree about the harness. I think I was pretty lucky to find a man's harness that fits.

Do we have shorter arms than guys then? If that's the case then it makes good sense to have a smaller chicken loop, compact QR system and short depower stroke.

Perhaps the "light wind" versions of various kites should be smaller sizes, e.g. 12m? I doubt I'll ever use 15-17m lightwind kites!
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PostSubject: Re: Women specific kit... is this a good thing?   Fri Jan 24, 2014 10:01 pm

blast wrote:
Sits back and waits for moose and vegas to step forward  Rolling Eyes

I don't understand!
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PostSubject: Re: Women specific kit... is this a good thing?   Fri Jan 24, 2014 11:22 pm

Personally I quite like the idea of a girls specific kite, perhaps only coz it makes me feel unique, especially as we r taking part in such a male dominated sport, and, especially when Dimitri asked specifically for my opinion :-)))

Like Marc mentioned, I struggle with the now 6.5m renegade as it's a bit heavier on the bar, so if that's the only way I can still ride the current Epic kites as comfortably as the 3G's then I'm all for it. I definately think that we would benefit from having lighter bar pressure and slightly smaller kites in our quiver, Dimitri is looking at 5.5m, 8 and 10, which I think r perfect sizes as we would very rarely need bigger than a 10m. Although saying that my quiver consists of the 5m 3G and the 6.5m 4G, I very rarely use the 9m.

The proto colours for the Wahine are pretty cool and in my opinion not too girly, guys would b happy to purchase a kite with the graphics on to.
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PostSubject: Re: Women specific kit... is this a good thing?   Sat Jan 25, 2014 5:12 am

I would agree with most of the points , bar throw , bar feel on the 4g bar I have small delicate hands Wink and it's quite thick. Wendy and I really like the feel of the kites but I wonder if the 6.5 is small enough for a 50kg rider. The sizes seem to be the most important thing .
Is there a downside too ? Will The resale will be harder , as Sarah pointed out its quite a male dominated sport. Having said that there are times when I have seen 50-50 split on the beach more recently.
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PostSubject: Re: Women specific kit... is this a good thing?   Sat Jan 25, 2014 5:45 am

I have to admit I do like the idea of the women specific kite. Especially as they are actually thinking of the design and the feel as well as the colours.
There are many sports which do a ladies option and only change the colour or do a smaller size ( kayaking you don't get lady specific boats ) and I genuinely think there are differences between men and ladies that if addressed people wil benefit. For me I find the throw on the retro fit a struggle to get to the de power (short arm syndrome ) , andif the bar for the wahine has a smaller throw then I will probably buy one as my main bar ! I think as the sport is growing there will be more lady riders so may not have a problem with the resale , if I was upgrading my quiver id definitely consider it!
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PostSubject: Re: Women specific kit... is this a good thing?   Sat Jan 25, 2014 6:34 am

Re. the bar. Wouldn't it be better to add an adjustable throw so that the bar works for everyone?
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PostSubject: Re: Women specific kit... is this a good thing?   Sat Jan 25, 2014 6:48 am

Here it is....please choose 1/2/3/4
What do you think?



The extenders


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blast

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PostSubject: Re: Women specific kit... is this a good thing?   Sat Jan 25, 2014 6:50 am

On a slightly different note, I guess it's also where you stop, kites for tall people,short people, heavy, light, young old?
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PostSubject: Re: Women specific kit... is this a good thing?   Sat Jan 25, 2014 7:12 am

Extenders for me as I clearly have girls arms!!
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PostSubject: Re: Women specific kit... is this a good thing?   Sat Jan 25, 2014 7:33 am

I like them all but 2 & 3 stand out the most . I am keen for the extensions Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Women specific kit... is this a good thing?   Sat Jan 25, 2014 7:36 am

Isn't the issue with the bar throw where the bar ends up if you let go of it it? I'm not sure the extenders will do anything other than make it easier to power/depower the kite.
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PostSubject: Re: Women specific kit... is this a good thing?   Sat Jan 25, 2014 8:10 am

Sorry to gender stereotype but 4 is definitely the girls kite, its got most pink      jocolor   & MC pig
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PostSubject: Re: Women specific kit... is this a good thing?   Sat Jan 25, 2014 9:18 am

I would vote for 4 because the design looks the cleanest and white is nice. It happens to also be pink, but that is a coincidence.

Below is the 2013 Melissa Hybrid wakeboard from Liquid Force. It is in my opinion one of the cleanest, nicest looking bits of ladies specific sports equipment out there. It has pink on it, but it's not dominated by it. I think manufacturers would benefit from taking a different angle to women's kite appearance. Rather than starting with a man's kite design, changing the colour to pink and putting some flowers on it, consider an industry with years of experience designing for women. Take a mainstream designer of women's "surf style" clothes, such as Weird Fish or Fat Face. Or look at shoes and handbags. Not always pink.

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PostSubject: Re: Women specific kit... is this a good thing?   Sat Jan 25, 2014 12:38 pm

Jeez you seen Fat Face recently?
You'd be riding an earthy brown kite!


The throw of the bar is exactly what I personally need especially for wave riding and after kitelooping...ie I can push the bar right out and kill the kites power when needed.
It has a very good stopper that you can adjust the throw distance too but for some the less/more straps are too far away.
I used the full length of the throw a lot today, firstly on the 9m Renegade and then even on our girly pink 7m Screamer.
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PostSubject: Re: Women specific kit... is this a good thing?   Sat Jan 25, 2014 12:55 pm

blast wrote:
Jeez you seen Fat Face recently?
You'd be riding an earthy brown kite!
Lol, well that would be impossible to spot if it went down in Weston-super-Mare!
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PostSubject: Re: Women specific kit... is this a good thing?   Sat Jan 25, 2014 12:59 pm

That's also the reason I don't like kites with too much white...they stain and look old too quick.
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PostSubject: Re: Women specific kit... is this a good thing?   Sat Jan 25, 2014 2:40 pm

Carries opinion (I'm typing what she is ranting behind me  silent   )

Pink? F*ck off with all the Pink Sh1t. Not every girl \ woman likes pink. So why pink?

So is the new kite just a mans kite with pink sh1t on it? if so, then pointless as resale is even less than normal

Sort out the bar throw. Make it so people with shorter arms can reach the depower ropes and or the bar.
Basically make a kite for small people, not just women and the pink sh1t. Many kiters are small framed men, so they must have the same issues, they are not going to want pink sh1t all over it

And sort out board pads & straps while you're at it, one size for all does not work

Right, now I'm off my soap box, so rant over  Very Happy Laughing Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Women specific kit... is this a good thing?   Sat Jan 25, 2014 2:53 pm

What does Carrie think of the colours so far?
Not a whole lot of pink in them except No.4 which Johanna liked even though she also said no to girly pink!

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PostSubject: Re: Women specific kit... is this a good thing?   Sat Jan 25, 2014 2:56 pm

I don't like too much pink either so I prefer numbers 1,2or 3, but mainly 1. They are making the Wahine based on the renegade Carrie, but r tweeking it to the majority of our requests, ie. lighter bar pressure, quicker turning etc.
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PostSubject: Re: Women specific kit... is this a good thing?   Sat Jan 25, 2014 3:00 pm

As above...it will be a new kite not just new graphics on an existing kite. And probably not available any time soon, we will get to try the proto types in Hatteras in May  cheers 


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PostSubject: Re: Women specific kit... is this a good thing?   Sat Jan 25, 2014 3:00 pm

But they could have done the same without calling it a women's kite and without it being pink.

This kite may also be perfect for a male teenager, but he would never be seen dead on a pink kite.
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PostSubject: Re: Women specific kit... is this a good thing?   Sat Jan 25, 2014 3:02 pm

blast wrote:
What does Carrie think of the colours so far?
Not a whole lot of pink in them except No.4 which Johanna liked even though she also said no to girly pink!


Any pink is too much pink, it's too patronising
They don't do baby blue for the boys

(she had a harness with pink swirls on it, she coloured it in with a black permanent marker)

Yes, she does sound like a militant lezzer Smile 

But she hates pink  Mad 
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PostSubject: Re: Women specific kit... is this a good thing?   Sat Jan 25, 2014 3:04 pm

True...but this is what they keep getting asked for....a girls kite (Epic have not been asked much for a teenagers kite)  Wink 
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PostSubject: Re: Women specific kit... is this a good thing?   Sat Jan 25, 2014 3:05 pm

jeez I will never understand them  Wink 
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PostSubject: Re: Women specific kit... is this a good thing?   Sat Jan 25, 2014 3:18 pm

I think the next question is

Have they been asked to make a pink kite or a girls kite?

If it's 'just' a girls kite, then i think they need to address the bar problems with small hands & lack of reach.

If it's a pink or 'some' pink Wink then I guess they need to cater for the masses

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PostSubject: Re: Women specific kit... is this a good thing?   Sat Jan 25, 2014 3:36 pm

I dislike pink for two reasons:
- There is too much of it around (for girls)
- It's a gentle/ weak colour, and that's not exactly motivating

If the pink is applied in the same way as orange would be, i.e. for a bright patch of colour, then it doesn't bother me as much. There are some men's kites and boards with strong pink in them and they look good.

I prefer the fourth kite design, but I wouldn't buy any of them unless there was a very good reason, e.g. performance.
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PostSubject: Re: Women specific kit... is this a good thing?   Sat Jan 25, 2014 3:50 pm

This is all very interesting and I am none the wiser!  Rolling Eyes

They have been asked to make a GIRLS KITE and need to know what the girls want, including colours?


In the past we sold the Origin and then the Renegade quite well in the pink designs to girls...and to Andy9lives too!  Shocked  
BUT generally it was the least popular colour for us.

Anyway, I know Jeroen the Epic Graphics designer is following this thread and also Dimitri has been reading it too so I'm sure some good will come from it.

Regards small hands and lack of reach...it's hardly a big issue, just something that could be improved on....blimey if Cameron at 10 y/old can use the regular kit then it should be fine.

Also if the likes of Me/Sarah/Alun/Wendy/Little Ian/SarahSav/Abi/young Owen and many many more are all using them fine it can't be too bad but again if we can cater even more for the short reach even better.  Cool
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PostSubject: Re: Women specific kit... is this a good thing?   Sat Jan 25, 2014 4:55 pm

Colour choice is clearly a dangerous subject, and opinion is divided! Jeroen and Dimitri must be tearing their hair out!

What about other features? Reach has been mentioned (to bar and to the other bits and bobs), and also bar pressure.

There has to be a trade-off with shorter bar movement. Either you get less total depower or the power/ depower ramps up faster which means that mistakes are amplified. Is it a worthwhile tradeoff? Probably for some people.

If the chicken loop can be made smaller, then why don't we already have smaller chicken loops for everyone? Is it because of ease of hooking in/ out? If it's for hooking in/ out while riding then making the chicken loop smaller seems like a great idea to reduce reach. I'm sure anyone wanting to ride unhooked can change their equipment when the time comes!

Reduced bar pressure could be helpful for women since we tend to have weaker upper bodies, but as it's already been pointed out - we'd be sacrificing bar feel. If we're already reducing the bar movement then bar feel is even more important. Dangerous ground?

There was some mention of faster turning kites. If us ladies are using smaller size kites anyway, then we tend to have more agile kites for any given wind strength. Do we need a faster turning kite? Isn't it more the opposite, that we could actually go for a slower turning kite if we can trade the turning speed for some other aerodynamic advantage, such as better low-end or ability to turn depowered (which could inadvertently result from having less bar feel). I don't know what the trade-off for a faster turning kite is - this is purely speculative.
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PostSubject: Re: Women specific kit... is this a good thing?   Sat Jan 25, 2014 8:13 pm

s
blast wrote:
BUT generally it was the least popular colour for us)

I think this speaks volumes. Is it the same with the other resellers?

Is it the same with other brands?

I think are a lot of girls out there who dislike pink. But in the same vein, there are many who do

The market research should be "How many kites with pink in their colour have sold in the past from other manufacturers?"

Just because girls want their specific kites to help them into the sport, why does it need to have pink in it?
Is it so we can make out it is a chick from a distance flying that pink coloured kite?  tongue 
Got to admit, it would make it easier  Rolling Eyes   Laughing 

Most kites aimed at guys do not have blue in them, so why pink for girls? Maybe for girls who are children, but most kite surfing girls are not children. Are they?
Maybe they could have some screen print saying "princess" as well?  Razz 

Bar throw, sure it's not a show stopper. Carrie "gets by" with her Ozone bar. But it's "getting by"... why should she have to get by to enjoy the sport?
She actually has to pull on a little depower so she can reach it. She is having to compromise


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PostSubject: Re: Women specific kit... is this a good thing?   Sat Jan 25, 2014 8:20 pm

Simple thing then vote for number 1 or poss 2
At least Epic are asking...unlike any other brand that I am aware of ;-)
We are trying also to make sure the throw etc comments are being listened too.
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PostSubject: Re: Women specific kit... is this a good thing?   Sat Jan 25, 2014 8:40 pm

Personally I don't see the point in a woman's specific kite, I can see why they might want a shorter bar throw or smaller boards ect. But what does the KITE do that help's woman ride? I can think that they may want smaller sizes and some lighter bar pressure. Since you can adjust bar pressure by changing the tow points on the kite why not just add a few more connection options and make a wider range of sizes available on the current range?

This has been done already though, Cabrinha have the Siren range which is basically just a pink Switchblade and bar with shorter throw.
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paulie_amoose

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PostSubject: Re: Women specific kit... is this a good thing?   Sat Jan 25, 2014 8:47 pm

sonnyrider wrote:


Bar throw, sure it's not a show stopper. Carrie "gets by" with her Ozone bar. But it's "getting by"...  why should she have to get by to enjoy the sport?
She actually has to pull on a little depower so she can reach it. She is having to compromise

I do like the Ozone bar, it has possibly the smoothest depower system on the market even though the megatron is a bit pants but for Carrie you know that a certain manufacturer that will go unnamed have been building fully adjustable bar's including bar throw since 2006... Smile
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blast

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PostSubject: Re: Women specific kit... is this a good thing?   Sat Jan 25, 2014 8:51 pm

Like I said, Epic are asking the question....what do the girls want.
They have already been asked enough times for a women's kite so rather than just make a pink kite they want to taylor it to any specific needs.

It's the girls that will win the vote at the end of the day....and if it means more girls on the beach that's gotta be a good thing.

Ps as I mentioned earlier we have seen a huge increase in girls learning to kite in the past few years, same with many other similar sports such as surfing.
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paulie_amoose

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PostSubject: Re: Women specific kit... is this a good thing?   Sat Jan 25, 2014 9:24 pm

The more woman on the beach the better but I don't see woman specific kit increasing the numbers particularly, the kinda woman who enter the sport are the kind who would come in regardless of weather the kite has big flower on it or not.

Besides there are so many manufacturers building many different kite design's that the ladies can get a something with say light bar pressure and slower turning in a small size without having to resort to pink bridles and pastel colour scheme. I just don't see what huge differences female riders demand that warrant a specific model.

And on the colour thing, most designs seem to be pretty gender neutral anyway, apart form the older Best's with giant flying penis of course!!

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blast

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PostSubject: Re: Women specific kit... is this a good thing?   Sat Jan 25, 2014 9:28 pm

But still they (some, not all) ask for a girls kite, so why not run with it, if it doesn't sell, at least they tried.
Hell they already make very specific kites like the Racer....I bet they will sell more Wahines than those.
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paulie_amoose

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PostSubject: Re: Women specific kit... is this a good thing?   Sat Jan 25, 2014 9:54 pm

Yup, but the kite demands of a freestyle rider compared to a racer are going to be very different and warrant a different design. But the kite demands of a female freerider compared to a male freerider, there is almost no difference....

But as you say, if it helps shift some more kites then good luck to them...

Anyway, here is a picture of the first gay specific kite.. Smile

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Abi

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PostSubject: Re: Women specific kit... is this a good thing?   Sun Jan 26, 2014 7:16 am

Bar: I don't think epic need to change the length or diameter of the bar , never have I found this a problem. They have answered my problem by making the extensions for the de power straps , the throw isn't a problem either I can reach the bar at its full throw but tend to use the stopper ball anyway . Id defiantly prefer the smaller chicken loop !

Kite: I really like the designs which they have done for the Kite , nothing else on the market looks like it ( like all their kites) personally I like the colours 1, 2 & 3. I do like pink and pastels any way, but don't love pink to the extent of all over the kite i(kite 4) . I think no 1 and 2 are a perfect ratio . Also pink has to be a powerful shade for it to work not so keen on the light pink renegade but the other pink/ purple one (3G ) is ace love that colour .
The sizes they have chosen I think will work really well my current quiver is 5 , 7 and 9m , I am mostly on 7 and 5m. I used to have the 11 renegade but found that I would get over powered on it too quickly and would have to change to the 9 . However with the 9 I find that I could miss some if those good marginal days , the 10m would hopefully cover this. Then for the middle and top end I think the 5.5 , 8 will be perfect .

I like the quickness and lightness the smaller kite , the 7 is what I find learning the most on , some people disagree that a smaller kite is good to learn stuff on ( all valid reasons ) I don't find it give me a smashing , learning back rolls on a 7 didn't loop the kite accidentally but it was responsive ! . If epic can make the 10 and 8 a good light and fast turning kites id definitely consider a move to lady specific.

Board : if epic aren't put off by the ranting of types if kite and colours then a girl board would be great , I find girl specific boards would be a good way forward too , currently the unisex boards I find the colours a bit dull. Also the flex is a big thing to consider . ( really like the oxygen colour design )

Anyway hope this post helps. We're lucky that epic are asking the opinion , how many kite brands offer a choice of colours and awesome designs !
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blast

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PostSubject: Re: Women specific kit... is this a good thing?   Sun Jan 26, 2014 7:19 am

Paul, I think we are just going around in circles here...it's already been decided by Epic to bring out a girls kite, they just want to hear from the girls exactly what they want!  Smile

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blast

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PostSubject: Re: Women specific kit... is this a good thing?   Sun Jan 26, 2014 7:24 am

Cheers Abi, excellent feedback.
Any other girls have an opinion?
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Reeny

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PostSubject: Re: Women specific kit... is this a good thing?   Sun Jan 26, 2014 7:53 am

I have the solution to worrying about length of bar throw... it's called wearing a super-sexy seat harness Wink. All ladies should try it! Razz Not once in my (now many years!) of kitesurfing have I ever thought "oh blow, look how far that bar is from me!"

So, in all seriousness, what I understand is Epic are interested in making a girl-specific kite? But surely the only difference will be the colours? Out of the colour options, I prefer 2 or 4, simply because they look more "together" and "clean". 1 and 3 look like the horrors that were the North colour schemes in 2012, too many colours and too much clashing in my opinion.

With regards to other points that have been raised, I can see that girl riders would like to have kites that have lighter bar pressure and a shorter chicken loop. Personally, my Genetrix pull through the arms like a beast, but that just resulted in me toning up! I have enjoyed flying kites with lighter bar pressure though, but obviously there has to be some sort of trade-off with how much it pulls through the harness! I have a really old 13m Ozone Instinct that has basically no bar pressure at all, but pulls completely through the harness. I absolutely love it, because as the seat harness ambassador for Wales, I can just sit back against this power, but Paul absolutely hates flying it because with a waist harness it just yoinks him around by the torso all over the place if there is ever a gust. Surely the best option therefore would be, to make a kite with lightish bar pressure BUT have several attachment point options so that you can increase the bar pressure if you feel the pull through the harness is too much, OR make it even lighter if you are happy with how much pull comes through the harness.

I think I diverged from the original point of the idea of a girls kite. Personally I think Epic could actually fill a gap in the market if they concentrated on the "LIGHTER" rider, rather than just GIRLS. I think someone mentioned before, there are teenagers learning, and smaller men *cough* Marc Wink *cough* who prefer smaller kites, lighter bar pressure, smaller chicken loop, all these things have been noticed as lacking by many kiters. But to make the kite just for girls, in the girl colour scheme, would cut out the teenager/lighter male rider demographic AND as pointed out SOME GIRLS(!) who hate constantly being bombarded with pink kites because they're female. However, if Epic decided to make the "GIRLS" kite part of a "LIGHTER RIDER" line of kites, then they could have one stereotypically girly pink kite which some girl riders go for, and I would suggest another more neutral colour scheme that teenagers/lighter riders/other girls would choose.

I haven't seen any other kite company purposefully aim for what I see as the "lighter rider" gap in the market before, so I expect 10% commission from them due to my brilliant idea Wink.

Hope I made sense Smile.

Shireen

PS. Of course I was joking about the 10% commission. I expect 25% naturally Razz.
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PostSubject: Re: Women specific kit... is this a good thing?   Sun Jan 26, 2014 8:01 am

Sizes: I've always found that my 7 and 10 work really well, as they give a bit of an overlap between the two sizes, but I can't comment upon the Epics in these sizes as I have to admit mine are blades (soon to be replaced)!  The 5m epic renegade is a great strong wind kite and sits nicely with my 7 & 10, so size wise I'd be happy with a 5, 7 & 10, but the proposed sizes also sound fine.  I regularly kite with KB4 girls so 30+ female kiters and the majority have 5,7,9 or 5,8,10 (or slight variations to these)

Colours:  I think the Epic kites are some of the best looking kites on the market, I was having a look the other night and I don't think anyone generally gets close.  I really like the bright and blocky colours, the screamers probably being my favourite looks wise.  I'm not a huge fan of pastel colours on kites as I think they look a bit dirty in the UK courtesy of our brown coloured water and dull looking skies.  If you can move me to somewhere crystal clear and blue skies perhaps my thought would be different.  I liked the cabrinha switchblade 2013 (siren) colours, but the graphics were a bit "pants" (like a pair of legs coming out of some knickers!)  Myself and Abi both like the bottom two of these (finally we have agreed on something! Shocked ) The bold and bright colours are great  Very Happy  I do like the design shown on the wahine above, but too be honest I'm not sure of the colours.  I probably prefer number 1 and 4, although possibly think there are too many colours, I think 3 would be enough.  Final thought, was keep them a bit like the screamers graphics, but with some variation, the pinky/purple and green looks awesome:
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alunj

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PostSubject: Re: Women specific kit... is this a good thing?   Sun Jan 26, 2014 8:26 am

Wendy likes number 3
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blast

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PostSubject: Re: Women specific kit... is this a good thing?   Sun Jan 26, 2014 8:27 am

Cheers Sophie,

Funny enough a few people have said that about the Siren...it looks even more like knickers in the flesh  Laughing 
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PostSubject: Re: Women specific kit... is this a good thing?   Sun Jan 26, 2014 8:28 am

So...there you have it, four choices and no clear winner!  Laughing 
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